April 7, 2026

Afraid of Stories with Saint

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of Afraid of Nothing, Bob Heske sits down with paranormal investigator, electrical engineer, and storyteller Elizabeth Saint to explore what happens when science and intuition collide. From growing up with unexplained experiences to building a career grounded in logic and systems, Elizabeth shares how she learned to navigate both worlds—and why she no longer sees them as separate.

The conversation dives into her evolution from on-camera investigator to creator of Stories with Saint, an immersive, audience-driven storytelling platform that blurs the line between reality and narrative. Elizabeth unpacks how technology, perception, and consciousness all play a role in how we experience the unknown—and why traditional methods of “proving” the paranormal may be missing the bigger picture.

At its core, this episode isn’t about ghosts—it’s about interpretation. It challenges listeners to reconsider what they believe, how they process fear, and whether the unexplained is something to avoid… or something trying to reach us.

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ABOUT ELIZABETH SAINT

Elizabeth Saint is a paranormal investigator, electrical engineer, and creative storyteller known for bridging the gap between science and the unexplained. Rising to prominence through television projects like Paranormal Lockdown, Ghosts of Shepherdstown and documentary The House in Between 2, she brings a unique analytical lens to paranormal phenomena, combining technical expertise with intuitive insight. She is also the creator of Stories with Saint, an immersive, audience-driven storytelling platform that blends real-world inspiration with cinematic narrative, inv

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WEBVTT

00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:07.120
But you fit into that skin better than I expected.

00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.919
Honestly, you almost had me fall.

00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:17.199
Welcome back, Saint Shadow Society.

00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:21.120
A story was offered, a path was chosen.

00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:24.320
What you're about to hear is the result.

00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.039
Wow, I am here with a blast from the past.

00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.240
Elizabeth Saint, who was actually in season one.

00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:43.600
Um, her production company distributed was the first to distribute my documentary, Afraid of Nothing.

00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:50.560
And I am so happy to have her back five, six years later because she is a woman who does everything and has a lot going on.

00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:56.799
And I'm so happy to call her a friend and to be involved in one of her more recent projects, Stories with Saints, that we'll talk about in a bit.

00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.159
But first, Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:02.240
Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.000
I'm excited to be here with you again.

00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:05.120
Oh, it's awesome.

00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.400
And uh, you know, the world should know who you are.

00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.640
But anyways, just for people who are under a rock, just can you give us a quick overview of uh who you are?

00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:21.040
And because you've been a you're you are an American producer, actress, kind of a paranormal gadget person, you're an inventor, you do it all.

00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:27.280
And uh, you know, just add on that a little bit for the audience so they know kind of the special person we're talking to today.

00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:28.400
Yeah, absolutely.

00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:35.280
I think if people know me at all, uh it would be through the TV show I was a part of, Ghosts of Shepherdstown.

00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:49.519
And um, my background is in electrical engineering, so it's been kind of cool to bring the tech side of me into the paranormal space, and I've been able to do that through uh gadgets I created for Ghosts of Shepherdstown.

00:01:49.680 --> 00:02:00.640
I've also done that in uh Paranormal Lockdown, and um I've done that for both Steves, Steve Shippy and Steve Gonzalez on their project projects as well.

00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:01.760
Wow.

00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:08.000
And you uh were a model before, but then some paranormal things led you into this field.

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:14.240
You want to can you talk about some of the stuff that kind of you know got your interest in this field and how you went in with both feet?

00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:15.680
Yeah, absolutely.

00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:34.560
I think that, you know, my my journey to I guess the more public side of the paranormal was rather unexpected, but I I think it was definitely meant to be uh out of college or out of high school, I should say.

00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:44.879
I I went to college initially for maybe like a month, and then I did get the opportunity to um do some high fashion modeling in New York City for a couple years, so I I did that.

00:02:44.960 --> 00:03:03.919
I I don't talk about that that part of my life very often, but point being is that I went I went back to school actually and ended up studying electrical engineering, and that's what kind of brought me down to the DC area, which is where I still live, um, because I was working for the Department of Defense for a while.

00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:14.240
And even though I've had experiences with the paranormal my entire life, I would say since I was about four years old, it was a very private part of my life for a very long time.

00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.840
It wasn't something that I spoke about.

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.560
I didn't talk about my day-to-day experiences.

00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:34.240
Um, but when I moved down to DC for my government job, I had moved into this apartment down here in Virginia that I it reached a point where I could not ignore anymore the things that I was experiencing.

00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:42.560
Um, I had a lot of activity at that location, and it got to a point where I honestly started like searching around.

00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:51.520
I didn't know anybody in the area down here, so I was like, you know what, I'm going to look for a paranormal group if that's something that exists.

00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:54.960
And um great, mind you, this is like over 10 years ago.

00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:07.039
And um, there was a I was shocked to find that there was actually a huge community, like a subculture, if you will, of people that um investigated the paranormal, and I thought that that was fascinating.

00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:15.759
So I reached out to this group called Maryland Paranormal Research, and they stuck out to me because they were very tech-driven themselves.

00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:26.399
And everybody that was part of the team either worked for the government, like me, um, or was contractor to the government in some way, or into science in some way.

00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:28.879
And I just thought, okay, these are my people.

00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:41.439
And uh I started investigating with them, um, both residential cases, and then we would do fun, like fun investigations for ourselves at historic locations in the area.

00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:47.279
And so that's how I was found for Ghosts of Shepherdstown was through my paranormal team.

00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:52.560
Wow, and this your experiences, was it the same entity, or were there different entities?

00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.959
Did an entity follow you to Washington, D.C.

00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:56.319
Was it ghosts?

00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:57.439
Was it UFOs?

00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.040
Are you are you comfortable talking about that?

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.199
Or should we just kind of leave that just in the background?

00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.160
Or no, yeah, I can definitely talk about it.

00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:12.399
It was um so when I was a kid, I had really horrible nightmares.

00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.360
And I guess now they call them night terrors for kids, right?

00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.160
Um, but they would always coincide with, I mean, this is kind of creepy.

00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.680
I felt bad for my mom, feel bad for her now looking back on it.

00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:27.439
But I they always coincided with sleepwalking for me.

00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:43.600
And so sometimes I would uh either my mom would find me in random places of the house, or I would I would wake up like sitting at the edge of my bed after a really bad dream, or like staring into the mirror was probably the scariest one I experienced.

00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:50.720
But there was definitely multiple entities that I experienced growing up that would come, I guess, to visit, or whatever it was.

00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.319
I don't really know if I knew exactly what it was.

00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:20.399
Um, fast forward to moving into this apartment, uh, it was just myself and I had a small dog at the time, so it was the two of us living in this space, and it started out where I would wake up sometimes in the middle of the night and see a figure standing in the door frame, very similar to things that I would experience as a child.

00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:43.519
But then it started to progress where I started having dreams about this entity, and um I would have experiences where I would be outside of my body as well, like between that the between that moment where you're awake and asleep, sometimes, and I used to do this a lot as a kid, like sometimes I I I started like leaving my body.

00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:52.480
And so this thing that was in the space, uh how it pr presented itself was this very disturbed man.

00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:58.879
He wore boots and a trench coat, but he would pace a lot in my closet.

00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:00.720
That's like quick question.

00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.160
That's like I would get in dreams.

00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:07.279
It wasn't a shadow figure, you could see kind of the features, you could see the features of this person, yeah.

00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:13.120
So when I would so when I'd wake in the middle of the night and see it, it would be more of a shadow figure.

00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:20.480
But in my dream state, or in my out-of-body, I guess, state, um, I would very much so see him.

00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:20.959
Wow.

00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:33.600
And um there were two experiences that made me say to myself, I need to find out what this is or what's going on with me, because I am not willing to accept that I'm just crazy.

00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:56.560
So there was one time where um I remember I was in my dream state, but I was walking around in my apartment, and uh I remember being at the foot of my bed outside of my body and seeing this man pacing back and forth talking to himself, and he was very angry.

00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:02.720
And I remember there was a voice inside my head saying, Don't let him see you, don't let you, don't let him notice you.

00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:08.720
And the funniest thing happened is something that happened that you wouldn't think that would happen in a state like that.

00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:13.600
But I remember taking a step and my floorboard creaking.

00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:18.720
And so as soon as my floorboard creaked, he turned his head in the closet.

00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.240
I'll never forget the look on his face over his shoulder.

00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.279
And I'm not even kidding you.

00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:29.680
I watched myself jump back into my body because I was so scared.

00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:35.039
And I remember sitting up, gasping, and like could not believe what just happened.

00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:36.559
It was terrifying.

00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:40.960
Um were you sleepwalking when the floor creaked, or was it in your mind?

00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.519
You know, were you?

00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:43.200
No, it was in my mind.

00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:53.279
Like, I really think that because I used to do it all the time as a kid, like, and I know it sounds a little weird, but I would I would go outside of my body and like fly around, right?

00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.120
I would I would do these things as a kid.

00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:56.320
That would scare me, you know.

00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.399
That would scare me because I'd lose control, you know.

00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:06.879
Did you did you yeah, did you have like a silver cord connecting you to your body, or how did you and when you left your body, was there like a vibration type thing going on?

00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.600
What was it like when you leave your body and come back in?

00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:11.600
Oh, this is such a good question.

00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:22.480
Um, and it's one I've I've actually not really had with people because I think that what's hard for me is in the back of my mind, I'm always going to be skeptical of my own experience, right?

00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:22.799
Yeah.

00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.440
I try to find a logical explanation because it sounds crazy.

00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:28.879
It sounds crazy.

00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:39.279
But no, I think as a kid, I was I was at a stage for uh I would say a long period of time where I wasn't having conversations with people about my experiences.

00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:43.759
I wasn't being told like, oh no, that's not happening, or no, you didn't experience that.

00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:51.679
And uh, you know, how we consume media and content is so different today than it was when we were kids.

00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:53.200
It just didn't exist.

00:09:53.360 --> 00:10:00.000
So I've I feel like a lot of my childhood, I was in my own little bubble of my experiences.

00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:04.639
And then as I got older, like sometimes that would change.

00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.399
I've always had really intense dreams for sure.

00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:16.639
But those things like leaving my body or flying around or moments like that, it was almost natural.

00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:21.200
It was an instinctive, like I knew that I could do these things.

00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:22.639
I had no doubt.

00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.480
And I think because I didn't have doubt, I had those experiences.

00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:27.600
Can you still do it?

00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:28.960
And do you still do it?

00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:42.000
Um, I have as an adult, I have um I used to practice a lot more qi gang and uh kung fu, and um, I was able to do it a lot better when I did those things.

00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:54.480
Um but I had a couple times that were a little scary, and so I I kind of stopped uh exploring, if you will, certain spaces.

00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:01.039
That's like it could become a wild conversation here talking about it, but that's the best way to put it.

00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:22.320
I I think that I find when you whether you're having an out-of-body experience or whether you're astro traveling or um remote viewing or having a really intense dream that you swear is real, I still think that you're crossing into spaces sometimes that we don't fully understand.

00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:27.440
And there's other things there that, you know, can be a little weird.

00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.840
All right, I'm gonna have to see you at a paracon sometime and get a couple drinks from you and get the rest done.

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:32.559
Uh yeah.

00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.320
So it's uh, you know, I was gonna go into the the stuff you've done.

00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:44.240
I'm gonna go back to that because I'm thinking what I'm hearing you talking about, this sounds like it might be stuff that inspired you for your stories with Saint series.

00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:50.639
So let's jump to that, you know, because I've seen some trailers of you walking in your sleep and seeing people digging in the greenhouse and stuff like that.

00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.080
So uh so yeah, let's just talk about stories with Saint.

00:11:54.159 --> 00:12:01.600
This is a different type of, you know, the Ghost of Shepherd's Town, or even the the films that you've been in, you know, the uh what was the one I was thinking of?

00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:03.200
Uh The House in Between Two.

00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:04.480
Those are investigations.

00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:08.080
You're in, you bring your your your your equipment, your gadgets.

00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.360
Um this is something very interesting, and and thank you so much.

00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:16.639
You had me in the first one, the first story that you did called uh not not my not our kind or not my kind.

00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.840
Yeah, not my kind.

00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:18.639
Yeah.

00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:20.799
And it's a cool concept.

00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:28.080
So how did this can you explain to our audience what it is and how you came up with this concept and and and kind of how it's been going?

00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.759
You recently released the first one and you have a second one coming out, and on Friday the 13th, you released uh Not My Kind.

00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:34.960
I did, I did.

00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.159
It was a good date for it.

00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:36.639
Yeah.

00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:39.600
So I guess I could back up just a little bit.

00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:52.720
Um, you know, a couple years ago, I find my I found myself at a place where uh I I felt like honestly, I felt like a bit of a disconnect with the paranormal community.

00:12:53.120 --> 00:13:15.120
And um I I had opened up a broadcast channel on Instagram, and I just started posting these weekly bits about tech I've created in the past or um experiences that I had, uh location highlights, and I I really started to like that.

00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.759
I I liked the engagement that I had with people.

00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:24.240
I liked being able to share stuff for with people that like wanted to read it, you know.

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:32.080
Um, but I I wanted to do something in the community, but I found myself a bit lost because there's so much content out there.

00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:43.279
I mean, there's so many people investigating and recording, and there's so many people that everybody has such a cool, unique view on the paranormal, and they're sharing that, and I love that.

00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:59.279
But I said for myself, like, yes, of course, I could do that stuff too, but what was I really going to be compelled to do for myself as a passion for myself that I got excited about on a day-to-day basis?

00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:06.720
And um my day job, you know, is I I'm uh I own a video production company.

00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.799
And so you end up making a lot of content for other people, right?

00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.240
Um, and and um I love my clients to death.

00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:26.559
I love all the work and the projects that we do together, but I was really lacking that creativeness for myself, something that like made me want to turn on a camera for myself and put stuff out there.

00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:35.120
And um, so about eight months ago, I had this idea of starting a choose your own adventure story.

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:46.639
Um, and I thought, like, oh, it would be cool if I just did these little story bits and I put them out and people could vote on the next part and we could see where the story goes from that.

00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:59.840
So uh I remember I did the first one, going back to your question, um, based on an experience that I personally had with what I would say would be alien phenomenon.

00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:13.360
And all of my stories have an Easter egg in them somewhere about an experience I personally had, um, including yours, is a that was a real experience up until a point it gets fiction, right?

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:21.039
But a good part of that was an experience I had with somebody in the paranormal community when I went to a convention.

00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:21.440
Wow.

00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:27.440
And so all the stories do ping back to an experience I've personally had.

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:31.440
And uh so yeah, eight months ago I started the stories.

00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.600
They're broken up into five parts.

00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:41.759
People vote not only on the part direction, but then what genre I guess we go and do next for the next story.

00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.200
And now we've we're working on our 12th story now.

00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.159
So and do they ever vote and you're like, I don't really like the way they voted, but I gotta do it anyways.

00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.360
Does that happen often?

00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:53.440
It's happened a few times.

00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:58.720
It's happened a few times where I'm like, oh man, I really wanted to take the story this way.

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:03.200
Um, so it yeah, it does happen, but it keeps things interesting for me.

00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:18.879
And I I I enjoy the challenge because it is quite a challenge to to have a like to write a story, um, a part to a story every week, but I have found it to be such a beautiful creative outlet for me.

00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:25.519
And I I love that like um I see the votes grow every week and people engaging and being involved.

00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:26.879
It's just a lot of fun.

00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.039
So can you um promote your channel?

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:34.559
You have like a channel where there's like 600 plus members right now where they can go in and vote and and how they do that.

00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.799
And another question I have is some are audio and some are video, correct?

00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.279
Is that true?

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:41.360
Like some stories are audio and some are video.

00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.399
And um I'm sorry, I'm gonna throw a third question in this.

00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:45.759
Like, not my kind.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.240
Does that story end there or does that continue, or did it end kind of in that first one?

00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.600
Yeah, so great questions.

00:16:53.840 --> 00:17:00.639
Um my broadcast channels are on my instagram and Facebook.

00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.720
I just opened up Facebook about a month or so ago.

00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.759
But it's called Saint Shadow Society.

00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:09.279
That's the broadcast channel.

00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:16.559
And um I do in my bio have uh links that go to all of these things as well, that's helpful.

00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:26.880
But you can also just read the stories at storieswithsaint.com and you can vote there as well, and you can catch up on all my past stories that we've written, which is pretty cool.

00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:27.440
Yeah.

00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:37.759
And then each story, um, some stories I offer a vote to extend to uh to make the story last longer.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:45.599
So there was one story called Um The Cleansing, and that went on for three stories.

00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:52.079
And and that was actually based off of a real case me and my team had in Vermont.

00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:57.519
Um, and we were sent at the time by the paranormal clergy to go cleanse that home.

00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.400
Wow.

00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.839
And um you know, how many more stories do you have?

00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.559
It's kind of a Twilight Zone feel, quite frankly, to be honest with you, when I listened when I listened to the first one.

00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:07.759
Uh very cool.

00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.599
Um how many Oh yeah.

00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:13.519
Wait, going back to your other question that helps with your next question here.

00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:28.640
Um, so we convert, so I decided I at the end of last year I said, at the end of last year, I said, I'm going to convert these into an a narrative audio podcast where people can actually listen to the stories in full.

00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:34.240
Because I was a little bummed that once a story ended that it wasn't actually living somewhere.

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:34.799
Yeah.

00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:39.920
And so I I started in January of this year, and I was like, you know what?

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.680
If I'm not going to do anything else, I'm absolutely going to do this.

00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.119
And I'm so happy I did.

00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.119
I kind of like held myself accountable.

00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:51.759
I guess in New Year's resolution, I'm I guess we could view it that way.

00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.960
But so yeah, so now it's a narrative podcast.

00:18:55.119 --> 00:19:06.000
Every story that we've completed is currently going into production to um showcase a narrative form of the completed story of the five parts everybody voted on.

00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:10.720
And what's really neat and unique is I do have a sign-up form.

00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.799
Anybody can be a voice actor.

00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:19.359
So I have a list of people I've been working through to bring on board and be a character on one of the episodes.

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:25.920
And and like for you, like you did an amazing job on that episode of Not My Kind.

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.680
Like, oh, it was so good.

00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:32.400
If nobody's listened to him on this episode, you need to.

00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:36.400
He plays the entity, and it really brought it to life.

00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.000
I'll tell you, if there's any role I can play, it's a creepy guy that makes you uncomfortable.

00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.480
So that's probably the perfect casting for me.

00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.640
So uh, and you've got a great voice for a narrator.

00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:47.440
That's really cool.

00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.119
Um, yeah, they have to check it out.

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.599
So uh see again the two places where they could go.

00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:57.279
I mean, I'm gonna put it in the notes and stuff, but because this will go out as a video and as an audio version of this podcast.

00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.640
But one more time because there are a lot of people that are closet actors and want to do it, and you this is a great format.

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:04.799
I mean, I I I I wanted to do it.

00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.319
I always hope with um doing podcasts, someone would discover my voice and I'd be in some series or something.

00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.000
And you were the first one, so thank you.

00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:13.519
It happens, yeah.

00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.400
You can go.

00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.440
So anybody can go to storieswithsaint.com.

00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:30.240
Uh currently, you can listen to the podcasts on Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, and you can also just go to storieswithsaint.com and listen to it on the website as well.

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:34.640
And that's also where you can submit a form in the navigation bar.

00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:43.839
There's a little link where you can go and um submit to the form, fill out the form to be a character actor, voice actor for the series.

00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.279
And what are the main platforms?

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.400
It's on Spotify, Amazon, what's the third one missing?

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.359
Is it Apple?

00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:49.920
Apple.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:50.319
Okay, cool.

00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah.

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:51.759
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.480
Excellent.

00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.279
And uh, do you put out those like once every week, once every two weeks, the audio versions?

00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:58.640
What's your goal on that?

00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.119
Yeah, so it's once every three weeks.

00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:07.119
The next episode comes out March 31st, and I and it'll be split into seasons.

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:25.599
So we'll we'll have five episodes a season, and that just helps me so our so our podcast, our narrative podcast never catches up to the stories because we have 12 stories kind of in the can, but uh every story takes five weeks to unfold.

00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.640
And what's your team?

00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:28.480
Let's go and throw a couple bouquets to them.

00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.960
Who's your team that you work with, and and how big is the team that you work with to get this great work done?

00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.680
Yeah, so Freddie Bernstein is our amazing voice director.

00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:40.240
You worked with her to do our recording.

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.880
She really brings um some amazing talent out of people.

00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:47.359
Even if you've never done it before, she's great to work with.

00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.319
She she has you do some exercises which makes you look really silly.

00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.160
So you've got some nice video for blackmailing us if you need to, like downstream.

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:54.960
So it's really good.

00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.000
Yeah, she was great.

00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:03.359
And she was really, you know, and it's both of you are when when you I just get the experience is it takes like a half an hour for a roll.

00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:19.119
You log into like Riverside, similar to the platform I use for this, and you have your coach, which is Freddie, and you, and that you kind of go through the lines and you do a couple rounds of it, you get constructive criticism, and then you're you're rock, it's locked and loaded, and then a couple weeks later it's live.

00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.119
So it's a very fun experience.

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.200
And it wasn't intimidating.

00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:24.480
It was it was fun, it was good.

00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:29.680
You found very easy to work with you and Freddie both on on the uh on the recording.

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:30.880
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.920
She she's she does like an amazing job.

00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:40.559
And then I I also brought on to the team um we have Jordan Suckley who does the sound design.

00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:57.200
Um then we also have Stuart Barefoot that does the folly and all the sound effects, and uh that he does that, and um Al Creedon, who's been who's at this point a childhood friend, he did all the original music for the podcast.

00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.039
So yeah, it's very well produced.

00:22:59.200 --> 00:22:59.920
Very well produced.

00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.000
Um so where do you see it going?

00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:09.839
I mean, you're gonna let the podcast run for a year, or do you see it going into another format, a graphic novel, a uh a shorts on YouTube?

00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:11.839
Where do you see it evolving?

00:24:04.609 --> 00:24:17.089
Yeah, so I do every every part I do put out um because they're fun for me, but I do put out uh a small like AI generated video that goes along with the storyline.

00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:17.649
Cool.

00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:18.049
All right, yeah.

00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:18.769
Yeah, yeah.

00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:21.089
So those are those are fun to do and put out.

00:24:21.329 --> 00:24:28.129
And um I I post those on on my social media every week as like a teaser to the next part that's about to drop.

00:24:28.450 --> 00:24:50.369
But uh I I haven't told anybody this yet, but except for the the team that I'm working with, but I am starting to do um uh uh like a choose your own adventure book series based on the stories that we've kind of done and make them going back to the question you had before is like, does not my kind end there?

00:24:50.609 --> 00:24:55.329
I would love to really elaborate some of these stories, not just write them in a week.

00:24:55.970 --> 00:24:59.569
And so um, that's the forum I'm gonna do for those.

00:24:59.730 --> 00:25:08.049
And then I would like to take a couple of these select stories and at the very least create short films from them.

00:25:08.289 --> 00:25:10.049
Um, but we'll see how it goes.

00:25:10.129 --> 00:25:15.250
I I've always I've always said that I would love to get more into film.

00:25:15.409 --> 00:25:21.730
Uh, and I think it would be a great avenue to do that and to make one of these stories really come to life to be able to do something like that.

00:25:22.049 --> 00:25:22.769
You know what you should do?

00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:33.089
You should get some uh college film students or organic film students and have them pick stories and create it, and then you put it into like an anthology or something, you know, with all different voices.

00:25:33.329 --> 00:25:34.609
That would be kind of cool, you know.

00:25:34.769 --> 00:25:36.690
Um that's just I would love that.

00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:38.129
No, it's a great idea.

00:25:38.289 --> 00:25:39.889
Producer credit to you.

00:25:40.129 --> 00:25:40.529
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:42.289 --> 00:25:44.129
If I do that, you're getting one.

00:25:44.529 --> 00:25:44.849
Perfect.

00:25:45.009 --> 00:25:46.289
That's a great idea, yeah.

00:25:46.529 --> 00:25:52.930
No, as you because it's just look, I did like an I did um a graphic novel, and then I did like a graphic novel anthology of shorts.

00:25:53.009 --> 00:25:57.089
I I had a kind of a before I did this, I had something called Hesky Horror, and it I only did like three.

00:25:57.569 --> 00:25:59.009
Oh my gosh, I did not know that.

00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:06.690
No, but it's a very small thing, indie published, and then I did like a complete amalgam of everything and and had that out as a book for a while.

00:26:06.849 --> 00:26:13.490
You know, not not nothing like what you've done, but I mean I I had the reason I did that was because I wrote a bunch of films.

00:26:13.730 --> 00:26:16.529
They some of them got optioned, but they didn't get made.

00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:20.049
So then I made a bunch of shorts because it's like it's easier to write a shorts.

00:26:20.129 --> 00:26:25.089
And then I took some of those shorts that did pretty well in contests and I put them into a graphic novel.

00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:28.210
I turned them into like graphic novel, and that's what I did, you know.

00:26:28.289 --> 00:26:29.490
And it was uh it's funny.

00:26:30.049 --> 00:26:30.930
That's so cool.

00:26:31.170 --> 00:26:36.609
Yeah, this is over like 12 years ago, 12, 15 years ago, but I did win like uh an Ippie Award.

00:26:36.690 --> 00:26:38.930
It's an independent, it's a very prestigious kind of New York.

00:26:39.089 --> 00:26:39.970
It was a bronze medal.

00:26:40.369 --> 00:26:46.450
They didn't have a class for like you know, graphic novels, but it was under horror, and I came in third place in that.

00:26:46.609 --> 00:26:50.210
But uh yeah, and I I I look at your stories and I see the same type of thing.

00:26:50.369 --> 00:26:51.649
Often you have to give me your address.

00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:55.009
I'll send you a copy of the actual the uh graphic novel anthology.

00:26:55.409 --> 00:26:56.049
Please do.

00:26:56.289 --> 00:26:57.170
I would love that.

00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:04.049
Yeah, I mean, if if anyone wants to collab on graphic novel, I would I would love that.

00:27:04.210 --> 00:27:10.369
I think that that's the whole point of all this, is I really love the community vibe it's given everything.

00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:18.049
I like having all these different people involved and uh yeah, I I it it's just really cool.

00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:18.369
Yeah.

00:27:18.609 --> 00:27:22.289
Yeah, I think there's some, I mean you look podcasts, sometimes podcasts are made in the movies and stuff.

00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:24.129
So there's so many places this could go.

00:27:24.289 --> 00:27:27.409
And I'll, you know, I I I really love what you're doing with it.

00:27:27.569 --> 00:27:35.009
Um before we go on to other things that you've worked on or things you have coming out, is there anything else you want to talk about regarding uh stories with Saint?

00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:44.609
Is there anything, you know, any announcements or anything, or uh just inviting people to check it out and to uh maybe audition as a uh as a voice?

00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:47.809
Yeah, I would just say go to storieswithsaint.com.

00:27:47.889 --> 00:27:49.329
Everything you need is there.

00:27:49.409 --> 00:27:51.730
Um, like the links to the broadcast channel.

00:27:51.809 --> 00:28:00.210
If you want to join the little community that we have, if you want to catch up on the stories, um if you need to reach out to me, you can do that as well.

00:28:00.369 --> 00:28:05.809
I mean, I'm I'm pretty open and um I'm just excited for where where everything goes.

00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:09.409
I mean, every week we're gonna be having a story that we're working on.

00:28:09.569 --> 00:28:12.930
So I just welcome people to to come and check it out.

00:28:13.089 --> 00:28:15.170
I mean, it's it's just a lot of fun.

00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:15.809
Cool.

00:28:16.129 --> 00:28:19.649
Now let's talk about you as the paranormal celebrity, the paraselect.

00:28:20.289 --> 00:28:27.329
Um how does your background as an electrical engineer, how does it change the way you I mean, it look, it's you're you're both sides of the coin, right?

00:28:27.409 --> 00:28:36.210
You've had these paranormal experiences as a kid, you've done out-of-body traveling, but then you're a very logical electrical engineer working within the science realm.

00:28:36.450 --> 00:28:43.329
How does that, how did that affect you as a paranormal investigator and how you approached uh um certain investigations?

00:28:43.490 --> 00:28:46.849
And maybe one you could talk about would be the um, what was it called?

00:28:46.930 --> 00:28:48.769
The house on the uh hold on one second, sorry.

00:28:49.009 --> 00:28:49.970
Oh, the house in between two.

00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:51.250
House in between two, yeah.

00:28:51.970 --> 00:28:53.170
That was a fun that was a fun one, I thought.

00:28:53.970 --> 00:29:10.609
I've had the opportunity to experiment in this field, I think, in a lot of ways that other people haven't had the opportunity to, um, particularly at uh going to some of the locations and building gear in real time that is built for that location.

00:29:10.769 --> 00:29:26.049
Like that that was uh that was something that I've I've really loved being able to do is just experiment and then like given the opportunity to just, hey, make what you want, whatever you feel for this particular location.

00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:27.490
This is what happens here.

00:29:27.649 --> 00:29:31.569
And like it's it's been really cool and had some interesting results.

00:29:31.889 --> 00:29:34.930
And I think that in this field we have to do a lot of experimentation.

00:29:35.089 --> 00:29:37.329
I think it's extremely important.

00:29:37.730 --> 00:29:48.930
And then, but then on the other side, um, you know, I would say that I I've definitely experienced things in my life that would probably make a lot of people a believer in something else.

00:29:49.170 --> 00:29:51.889
But there's always this voice in the back of my head.

00:29:51.970 --> 00:29:59.649
It's definitely the engineer, Elizabeth, that says, Well, no, no, no, you could just not even be here really at all.

00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:05.250
This could be one long dream, and none of nothing that you experience really matters here.

00:30:05.409 --> 00:30:10.129
So the fact that you had this going on, I'm sorry, but there's probably an explanation for that.

00:30:10.369 --> 00:30:18.210
So I kind of, you know, I I've had some really beautiful experiences in my life when it comes to spirituality and the paranormal.

00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:24.049
And um, sometimes I feel a bit robbed of that because I I have the other side to me.

00:30:24.369 --> 00:30:27.409
Yeah, you have the the devil and the angel on your shoulder, right?

00:30:27.649 --> 00:30:30.930
Which bring different things into your into your head, which is interesting.

00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:33.409
Um, yeah, I don't know if I ever told you this.

00:30:33.730 --> 00:30:35.809
So uh the Afraid of nothing documentary.

00:30:35.889 --> 00:30:41.569
I never have seen a full body apparition or anything, but I did have it was my kind of a paranormal experience I had.

00:30:41.649 --> 00:30:59.170
I'll I'll I'll tell you very quickly because I don't know if I ever told you in the background was so part of that um documentary was I went to a place called the uh I think it's called uh the Magic Parlor in Salem, and I knew the guy because he had actually been a director and produced a drama we made together a couple years before that called Bless It.

00:30:59.569 --> 00:31:07.649
And he would get Ouija boards from the Talking Board Historical Society that were allegedly cursed, and they would bring them to his shop and he would like sell them.

00:31:08.049 --> 00:31:14.049
And he he called me and he said, Hey, I got this Ouija board, and and I had a person come in and he said, It's sell them.

00:31:14.129 --> 00:31:20.210
You know, they're weird, but someone came in, looked at the board and the display case, and said, There's seven demons in that Ouija board.

00:31:20.369 --> 00:31:22.129
And so naturally he sold it to me.

00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:28.690
And so uh I was married at the time, and my ex-wife wouldn't let me bring in the house, so I had it in my trunk, in my car, right?

00:31:28.930 --> 00:31:36.129
And as I would drive to work, um, I would try to cheat at work because there's a parking lot, you had to walk a million miles or the garage.

00:31:36.210 --> 00:31:37.809
I would cheat and go to the top.

00:31:38.129 --> 00:31:47.970
And usually I had FM on, but I one one day I had AM radio on, listening to Sport Talk Radio, and as you go around the garage, I would hear this weird kind of voices coming through.

00:31:48.049 --> 00:31:51.329
It was, and it was, and it happened like three, four days in a row.

00:31:51.409 --> 00:32:03.009
So finally I I recorded it, and one of the guys in the film did EVPs, and then he cleansed it, and it was all this stuff that came out from the EVPs, which was like uh when I look back, it was like we're hiding me.

00:32:03.089 --> 00:32:10.769
And I thought, oh, they're in the trunk, but you know, and then it was like they said something negative about God, and I would always start every day with an affirmation about God, right?

00:32:10.930 --> 00:32:14.369
And so those EVPs are actually in the documentary.

00:32:14.529 --> 00:32:17.889
But what's even weirder was I did finally get rid of the board.

00:32:18.129 --> 00:32:19.809
Um, one night I'm in bed.

00:32:19.970 --> 00:32:30.529
I hope my ex-wife hasn't listened to this, and I literally I'm laying in bed, and I felt like someone punched me, not like in the gut, but the opposite, my rib cage open, and like something almost leapt out of me, right?

00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:35.089
And I'm in bed facing my ex-wife, and I can see her eyes flutter really quickly like that.

00:32:35.409 --> 00:32:37.409
Um we're toward the end of our marriage.

00:32:37.569 --> 00:32:38.930
I didn't tell her about it at the time.

00:32:39.089 --> 00:32:41.009
And so uh, yeah.

00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:44.769
And so I always wondered, and it, but it it was real.

00:32:44.849 --> 00:32:48.210
I mean, I was awake, I could feel, I could feel something come out of me.

00:32:48.289 --> 00:32:55.409
I could feel almost like my chest open and something come out of me, and it almost like it left me because I was I was almost being I was doing daily affirmations and things like that.

00:32:55.490 --> 00:32:58.129
It was almost like I wasn't a good host, I almost felt, you know.

00:32:58.289 --> 00:33:01.009
And for a while I was freaked out that my soul left me, you know.

00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:08.210
You have all these thoughts you think about, and um, I don't have anything beyond that story, nothing has happened to me in the 10 years or so since that.

00:33:08.369 --> 00:33:13.730
But and my wife wasn't possessed by the devil or anything, you know, but but but she is kind of psychic.

00:33:13.889 --> 00:33:21.889
But uh that was the closest thing I had to an experience where I had really good EVPs in my car off my car radio on the AM radio.

00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:30.210
Um, and then I felt after the um I was done filming, something came out of my body and left, you know.

00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:33.889
And uh so that was my weird experience on that on that film.

00:33:34.049 --> 00:33:34.849
So I don't know.

00:33:35.009 --> 00:33:39.170
If you're gonna put me on a couch and psychoanalyze me, what would you think about that?

00:33:39.730 --> 00:33:42.129
I have so many questions.

00:33:42.609 --> 00:33:48.049
Like I say, so you say that you felt like your soul left your body, right?

00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:49.009
I was afraid.

00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:50.210
I know something I felt something.

00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:53.649
Yeah, I felt something, I felt some energy leave my body.

00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:59.569
Like it was like someone a reverse punch out of your stomach instead of into it, like it opened and something left.

00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:01.970
Well, uh yeah.

00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:11.970
I mean, yes, we could say, like, oh, it was a negative entity that was there with you, which I I think happens when people are in a really dark place.

00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:16.530
It's not uncommon, I think, for certain things to attach to you, latch onto you.

00:34:16.690 --> 00:34:16.849
Yeah.

00:34:16.930 --> 00:34:19.409
Um, so I I do think that there's that part.

00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:24.610
But the way you were describing it also made me feel like I shouldn't laugh.

00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:25.490
It's not funny.

00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:33.889
Um, but that potentially like, well, maybe maybe you're like soul sharing your body a bit.

00:34:33.970 --> 00:34:39.090
Maybe the first portion of your life that was something else, and now now now it's you.

00:34:39.650 --> 00:34:41.090