Mental Health Crisis: The Boogey Man of the Mind

SPEAKER_03 0:06

In a world where nothing is known, nothing is certain. Reality is not real. Be afraid.

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I'm Bob Hasky.

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The host with the ghost.

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This is my podcast, based on my paranormal documentary, Afraid of Nothing. Each episode we talk to people who see life and the afterlife through a different lens. Join me. Who is this large man? And what's he doing in our bedroom? As we lift the veil and open our minds to see beyond our eyes lie. This is afraid of nothing. I am here with a very special guest. Her name is Dr. Christine Hull. And usually this is a paranormal podcast. This one is more on mental health with kind of a twist of the paranormal. And Christine has really had been there, done that in terms of the ups and downs of what a lot of her clients have gone through. And she's got a fascinating story and a fascinating story arc as well. So welcome to the show, Christine. Excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Thank you. It's good to be here. This is a little different vibe than the regular show. So I'm I'm curious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Like, God, this is really something I'm hearing a lot about. It's worth talking about. I mean, I think of the mental health crisis as kind of the the boogeyman of the mind in the United States, you know? Um and it's just prolific. I'm going to rip off a couple stats right now and get your kind of thoughts on that, and then we'll go into your story and kind of where how you got to where you are today, okay? First of all, I don't think we'll know that there's nearly 60 million U.S. adults, there's like 350 million in the U.S. population that have experienced a mental illness in 2024. That's about one in every five adults, or 11 in every 47 Americans, if you count like teens and children. About just under 6% of adults, about 14.6 million people, experienced serious mental illness in 2024, and that's about one out of every 20 adults. People may think that people with severe mental illness are committing crimes, because you see that a lot on Facebook. But people with severe mental illness really are 10 times more likely to be victims of a violent crime than to commit one. Less than probably 4 to 5% of all violence in the U.S. is attributable to mental illness. Um, so it's it's not as big as we may think, but it's really if you think about it, people with serious mental illness, they're 10 times more likely to be incarcerated than hospitalized because their illness is not identified or addressed, and they're 16 times more likely to be killed in encounters with police uh than the general population. So there is that. And the last stat I'll leave you with is about youth. Youth and young adults ages 10 to 24 now account for 15%, 1-5% of all U.S. suicides. That's a 52.2% increase since 2000, making suicide the second leading cost of death in that age group. So with that kind of happy opening, uh Christine, I'm late to you, but what do you I hope that's not happy in your world? Yeah. But is that does that kind of ring and resonate with you?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, it's a it's staggering how I do and I guess the question is, and this was the question, so my background, I first of all am a recovering addict. And and I thought, you know, before the show, you you nailed it pretty well. Like I have these polarities. So growing up, I was a victim of abuse, and then I switched and I became more of a an aggressor. Like my anger came out and I got in a lot of trouble. And so, so when you talk about the legal things, you know, I certainly wasn't getting in trouble when my predominant symptoms were anxiety and depression. But when I flipped a switch with PTSD, and that will do that to people, you know, you'll see him flip a switch because it's your fight-flight system is kind of constantly activated. And, you know, and I just kind of made almost a semi-conscious decision at one point. I was tired of being the victim. And so I'm like, well, what are my options? Maybe I'll start the fights, you know. And so I, you know, I don't think I'm proud of it, but I I was in a brand new high school and I was the first girl fight. It was me and another girl, you know. You asked me, did you win the fight? I guess I should ask, or how did you? I well, it looked like it because she had braces, but she got my nose. And so the next day with the black eyes, like, yeah, she got the trophy. But darn it.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

But so you really flipped the script, so to speak, you know. You've you've you you were bullied, you have kind of a tough childhood, and then you became the you you decided, hey, and then I I got angry. Yeah, and then you got into drugs and I did, yeah. You married even a drug, uh drug dealer. Married my drug dealer, yeah, which is tough to kind of escape that. And then you went into um being a uh a psychic, uh not a psychic, a uh psychiatric uh psychology, yeah, into that.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, so I I got my bachelor's in psychology and I was trying to figure me out. So this was, you know, as a young adult, like I knew I had issues, and I didn't even know how to scratch the surface on that. But I was definitely intrigued when they played Sybil in psychology high school psychology class. And I'm like, oh, multiple personality disorder, that's interesting. So so I thought, well, they're out there, you know, these very complex minds. Maybe I can figure mine out. And, you know, my bachelor's in psychology didn't even scratch the surface. But I do remember going through the DSM, I think it was like the four at the time or three at the time, um, and and looking at the list of personality disorders and thinking there's there's something there, but it was brushed over in my bachelor's and again brushed over in my master's later. And so it was not really addressed. And that's where I think I've really developed my specialty is in understanding personality disorders and the level of complexity, I guess. Um, I can tell you, like I had a wrap sheet by the time I was 18, but my DSM list was much longer. Um, and so by the time for the DSM is a diagnostic statistical manual, which is what is referenced when people get a diagnosis. You know, anxiety and depression have several different codes, and PTSD has a code, and and insurance is likely to cover certain codes more than others. They do not like to cover personality disorders. So basically, because the nature of that system, we don't talk about it. Insurance doesn't cover it. Why go there? There's no money in it, right? Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

You know, it's uh you mentioned Sybil. I remember I'm old enough to remember when that first came out. That was like the exorcist on TV, obviously, how shocking it was. And it was kind of the first time that was it was creepy, right? And uh that so, so, and I have an autistic daughter, so medicine is slow to catch up to what the illness or the disorder is, right? And I think you going through it found, yeah, maybe there were some things in what the treatment was that were helping, but it had a big void or a big gap, correct?

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Well, so yeah. So let me fill in some of that gap for you. So um, before I got my master's degree, I worked for at least 10, 12 years in the substance abuse field. So I had, you know, basically before I married the cocaine dealer, I actually did have a spiritual awakening and I was drug free while he was still using. And so the spiritual awakening I had is what changed me from the inside out. It brought me to like a life that I never I mean it completely transformed my path. So when you talk about polarity, 180 degrees, I was flipped around on a different path to, you know, more or less first thing I did was realize, well, this is this is what I want to do. I want to support this kind of change for people. So I I finished off my bachelor's with a double major in social work, and I was able to kind of get into like practicum at a rehab, and and then I went to another college where I got a certification in the addiction studies. And while I was at this, it was a UVU, um, Utah University of Utah, and it was kind of cutting edge, I would have to say, in the 90s, because the I was learning about muscle testing. I remember one of our professors brought in, I guess it was done in chiropractic a little bit, but kinesiology or muscle testing, behavioral kinesiology, where she had, you know, students come up to the front of the room and hold a bag of potato chips and a water and a coke, and and they, you know, the ones that were holding the toxic foods, their their muscle strength went weak. And, you know, the water and other health promoting things, their muscle strength stayed strong. And so I was very interested in that. And, you know, and they had an entire team there, it was a couple who were teaching about personality disorder development. So they're looking at how comorbid these, you know, personality disorders are with addictions and how it seems to settle in based on parenting styles and you know other factors. And so I learned more in that one year than I can honestly say in the other six years or seven years I did, you know, in the other programs. So there was something about addiction studies that they were uncovering that the mental health field was not even looking at. And part of it is because even now today, the strongest intervention, one of the strongest interventions, is Alcoholics Anonymous, which is a spiritual program. And so, why would a spiritual program work for a mental illness? Well, because it's also a spiritual illness.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

So I have a bunch of questions for you, by the way, that are authors. I send questions ahead, and I never use the questions I send. So just so you know, it's like I'll try to stay by those, but okay. Now my first question was what triggered your spiritual awakening? What what you said you had that, but what triggered? Where were you? What happened? What caused it?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

So there was a couple things going on. One I knew about because it was my experience, and one I found out about later. So my experience is that I um I'd started into cocaine late 1987, and and it was with a a dealer, and so we had a large access to it. And so the it the disease picked up real quick. You know, I'd been using all the other things marijuana, LSD, you know, alcohol, and you know, and I'd had some issues with some of those substances. They had caused problems, and you know, in the diagnostic criteria, if if a drug causes you a problem and you quit, then you don't have a problem. And so I thought I didn't have a problem because I quit those things that I didn't like. But then I found the thing I liked, and then it became a problem. Was that cocaine?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Or uh was cocaine the thing that you liked?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Or that was the thing I liked. And based on my chemical deficiencies, if you want to call it that, my chemical imbalances, it was the thing that was that match. You know, they they talk about Candace Pert in uh What the Bleep Do We Know? I don't know if you've heard of that film. Yep. It was a good one, came out, you know, 20 years ago. And and she really depicted that really well with peptides and you know, the lock and the key and the you know, all those things that happened in the brain. So that was my lock and key. Like that was uh, you know, and what was interesting is that I I was moving into that progression, but then a flip, a switch flipped again. We're talking about these, you know, like overnight things. And I was using the substance. Um, I remember it was, you know, it was kind of a version of smoking it. And so it was kind of like the crack sort of thing. And and I hadn't ever really gotten it. It was like, why does everybody love this so much? I don't get it. And so so something was maybe protecting me. I don't know. But um, this one night, one of our friends came home, came over, like came to the door, and uh she was one of those cheerleader. I think she literally was a cheerleader in high school, and she was always bubbly, you know, she didn't have that chemical imbalance, and she just was there for the fun. Um and she was not her personality, was not there. Like she was a gray cloud instead of a bright sunshine that night. And I found out that she'd just come from this a funeral of a friend of hers who had overdosed, and it was kind of one of those overdose slash suicide, sort of they hadn't sorted it. So she came in with that heaviness surrounding her, and you know, we get into the drug again, and that time it not only clicked, it never left me alone. So later, as I started to trace back what was that, I got a really clear knowing that she had brought an earthbound spirit with her. The guy never went on to the light, you know, he was clinging to her and then latched onto me as my guest, you know, and so I do think there's a little paranormal in that story, but it it explains some things. And um, later I found out this book had been written by a man talking about near-death experiences, um uh Return from Tomorrow. Does that sound familiar? Uh Richie, I think, is the last one.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Like near death experiences that are being made into films that are created. One was an ice climber, you know, monk. We love yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah. So that was the first one I'd heard of. And he during his time in spirit form, he entered a bar and saw he could tell the difference between the actual people sitting at the bar and the earthbound spirits sitting at the bar. Um, partly because he would watch and the earthbound spirits weren't drinking, they were waiting. And once the person at the bar got a certain level of intoxication, they were unzippable. It's kind of the word that, you know, it was like they were open to being vicariously, you know, experienced through these the earthbounds would enter them and get the drug, get the alcohol, whatever the buzz. And so, and it was just really like, oh wow, I think that's what happened.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

How did you get rid of it?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Because from that night, how did you get rid of that? Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt, but oh, that's a good question, right? So that's part of this whole, you know, these polarities. So I from that night, I couldn't refuse the drug, I started losing weight, I started experiencing late stage kinds of um symptoms, and and I couldn't control, like I remember I I hadn't eaten much, I knew I was my weight was down, and I had to eat. And I made dinner, which I didn't do very often. And and then a guy came over with powder. It was actually crank at the time, which went that one is like, well, now you're not gonna eat for 12 hours, you know? So and I I remember I didn't have my normal capacity to refuse or to think like I didn't choose for myself after that.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

I want to ask you two other quick questions before I forget them. Um your experience with drugs and a drug counselor, what are your thoughts about marijuana and about ayahuasca?

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Oh, okay. So I have a couple of thoughts on can we add um psilocybin in there? It's because it it I feel like they all kind of group together. But um, but yeah, marijuana I think it depends on the person. So there's actually some DNA testing you can do, and and in your DNA, it can tell you if you have an affinity for a substance or if it's really a bad idea for you. And there are um there is a genetic marker with marijuana that is very strongly, they're saying like it is leading to psychosis. And so if you have that marker and you use marijuana, you you might be fine for a few months or years even. And then like that gene switches, right? And you could be having major mental illness.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

See, this is the stuff that should publicize more often. Like you need to get a license to get a gun, you know, or whatever. You know, you need to have a certain background. They should be checking that up before you you buy your gummies or your or your marijuana at the dispensaries. Um, wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

So I haven't experienced ayahuasca personally, to tell you my personal opinion on it. Um, I hear a lot of stories of people that are having awakenings with it, and I don't hear a lot of downside. Um, I think if it's conducted with the right people with the right intentions and facilitated well, I think it could be an option. And and it might have some really cool, very beneficial results.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Um, part of it is it's opening the third eye. So my experience is, and I've done a lot of work and understanding of the third eye, the sixth chakra.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

And and what I think is part of that, I want to ask one question because this is kind of segue. You do something, you're an integrative uh mental health.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Integrative, yes, integrating western and eastern.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

So maybe that's kind of where you're going, anyways, but if you could kind of discuss that. And do a lot of people do that, or are you kind of a pioneer in that? I don't think very I don't think very many do it. No, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

I think it's a little more common. I think people have their thing that maybe in their, you know, as a therapist's own journey, they're figuring out they've they've got to do some somatic work. So somatic work is is part of an integrative model. The idea is that we want to see um I call it the wellness diamond. So there's four prongs to the wellness diamond, physical, which there isn't a lot of physical solutions in the mental health field. Um, you kind of have to step away and get medications. Like hopefully, people are getting medications and working with a, you know, someone making it more integrative, if you would call it that. But but I don't know that medications, I wouldn't call them really integrative. So integrative things in my book would be things like um somatic tools, things that are not dependent, you know, don't create a dependency, or that are not outside of our normal ability to really kind of create ourselves. So mindfulness training or, you know, a and definitely nutritional neurochemistry.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I'm, you know, all on that, and and understanding how nutritional supplements and amino acids and even peptides and different things like that that we're starting to see more of can be a solution for chemical imbalance and and doing the DNA, looking at what is there and you you would get along with my ex-wife because she's very much, I mean, she would have I have an autistic daughter, and so when we're very young, she thought we were losing her. When when she was very young, I have two daughters, and one had a sensitivity thing. It took her a while to grow into where she was not comfortable in her skin, she had to have a weighted type of blanket or yeah, we would think the other one would seem to be like dulling and and losing her, and so she changed the diet, she got all these supplements, you know, and I mean the counter would be full of all these holistic things. Um, because it really she felt was important to clear the fog, you know, to clear the fog of autism. And she was very big on that. And the kids have had been, you know, vegan, gluten-free, well before it was it was in, probably oh god, they're 18 and 20 now. That's oh, you know, 16.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

I started gluten-free, really, before it was a thing. Yeah, for sure. So the so the other four prongs of the diamond, the other three are one is emotional, and and at first I thought, well, this is just emotions, but then later in my training with quantum university, when I, you know, was studying the quantum layers of who we are, I learned that's actually the vital body. So the vital body will store emotions, and that's our chakras, our meridians, um, sometimes the Aric fields. And people who are more intuitive will pick up on that. You know, it's like, and and even empathic, you know, individuals will feel like when someone walks in a room, they might be controlling their body language, but still exuding an emotion that people will perceive. And that's coming through that vital body. Um, and also I I trained in emotional freedom technique, um, the original Gary Craig model, and and then I developed it, you know, kind of to work even beyond the vital body. And um, and it's you know, releasing emotion from meridians, meridian points. So at all works. Right, you're an empath.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Are you an empath or how we're not?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

I'm not. I wasn't. I wasn't born that way. So this is where, yeah, let me tell you this little piece of my story. So the drug dealer that I, you know, make sound so scary, he was an empath. I was the mean one. I was the one that had more sociopathic tendencies. So so I'd actually pretty much lost my conscience. Um, I was very detached emotionally. And he came into my life, and and then I kind of woke up in you know, a physical way, and that I my brain was stimulated with cocaine, and I felt felt more. And and then I said I was gonna throw in psilocybin. So it was actually psilocybin during that last year that provoked promoted, I think, a spiritual awakening. It kind of laid the groundwork for that in a lot of ways. And and I'm actually, I if anything's to be legalized, I think that one could be. I think it actually has huge potential as an antidepressant that would um support, well, microdosing, obviously, but um that could support a more uh integrative model of holistic change. Because that's when I started to feel is you know, the combination of those two things woke me up emotionally and like kind of put put me in a place of connection that I didn't have before that.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

So you yeah, so what you're talking about is typical medicine is like the numbing of the symptom, right? Like give them a few. Oh, right. I would have a lot of and you're like, no, you need to connect with your emotions and you need to control them, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Basically, is that kind of the where you're I had I can't tell you how many clients I had in my practice when I was working in, you know, in private practice, that their goal in treatment was to get off of their antidepressants. And so they wanted to make sure they had enough tools and support. And you know, I wasn't in a medical position to do that, but I was I supported the emotional work, and that's typically what they needed to move beyond the patch of an antidepressant.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

When I look at your website, there was this very cool diagram of kind of the frequencies. I know this is part of your frequency formulas where you start vibrating low where you're in the drugs and all that same feeling, depression and all that stuff, the 100, 200, and then you go up to a certain level. And I don't know, is zero point kind of you know integrated into that as well? Is zero point part of that frequency? I'll get to that.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Okay, yeah. Let me address this frequency model because I love talking about that. So, yeah, so low frequencies are like shame, um, fear, guilt, depression, those kinds of things. And and I'm gonna ask you, what do you think is the highest of all the negative emotions in the which emotion would be the highest frequency? If any guessing highest in terms of going to the next level of normalcy, well, and it's still not above a 200, but it's you know higher on the scale than some of the really heavy emotions.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Guilt? What'd you say?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Guilt. Oh, guilt is no, that's really low. It's right above shame. It's anger. Anger.

unknown 26:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

So anger is a catalyst. And so it was interesting that if I look at my arc you talked about.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Right, that was you, and I that was me.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I had to get angry before I could get worse and then get better.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Interesting. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And yeah, it's like it was a breakthrough, it's a breakthrough emotion. Um, when it's not, you know, part of a personality or constant, right? So so people that don't get angry, people who are in victim states, that's typically, you know, something I would encourage them, I would teach them how to get angry, when to get angry, and some of the parameters around that so they could have a breakthrough. So anyway, so mental is uh another point of that diamond. And if we're looking at the frequency model, so what I kind of found is that at a 200 frequency, people are typically dependent on something. So that's where they're not feeling anything, they're just kind of numb, they're um just survival mode kind of stuff. And then a 300 is where you see the heroes. So the heroes are typically your therapists and you're you're working and you're doing the deal and you're socially responsible, and all these things seem to work. But I had a criminal kind of like I don't know, wild hair, right? And and I I found myself teaching a lot of these principles in a jail. And it was while I was teaching that I actually came across the frequency model. And and it was interesting because they would provoke really deep questions, you know, and thought and answers. I would have to go home for a week to come back with the answers, you know, for what they were asking. And and they ranged, and that was partly like, what is there, you know, why are we doing this? Why, what are the reasons to become a socially responsible person? Because they would kind of point to the guards and say, that's not high frequency. And I'd be like, I can't disagree with you. So I took it to like my own experience, partly, and my own questions. And what I found is that if the world is made up of only 100 to 300, that's not a world I really wanted to be a part of. Yeah, it's just basically it's a self um what, uh a circular system that is, you know, kind of dependent on a problem, and a solution only really is semi-effective, you know. So like prison doesn't really work, you know, and so it was like there's got to be something higher. And that's when I figured out what a 400 frequency looks like, and that is the frequency, frequency of emotional, you know, movement and and feeling and inner motivation and a passion and a life full of meaning that like it's hard still, but it matters. And so I started sharing that with them. And then it took me a little while. I don't know if I was still in the jail when I figured this one out, but and teaching this, but I realized that that is also a roller coaster. And so the emotional roller coaster, I mean, we see it all the time. We see it in relationships, we see it in jobs, you know, it's like we have good days and bad days, we have a finances. Think about the roller coaster of finances, right? So a lot of people can relate to this hope that like it's almost it's almost like worth it, and then it's hard again. And and so it's like there's gotta be something better than that, and that's the 500 frequency.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

One, I uh unfortunately, as a paranormal podcaster, I'm probably buried in the 200 to 300 uh frequency range.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Um if you like fear, I guess that's that's you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Well, I I I you know it says afraid of nothing. I'm I'm not really a big afraid of nothing guy. But really, that was because that came about, by the way, because half the people are afraid of death, you know, and the other half of fear. I started this whole journey when my mother was when your first parent dies, it was my mother. It really made me question things and want to talk to people like you or people outside of my narrow vision. So that's where that came from, you know. But um, so is it sounds like the one to three hundred range is the people, the ego is really heavy on that, focused on me, my problems, poor me.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

There's victim ego, there's yeah, there's bullies in there.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah, then when you get to above that 400, that's more of the service to others. That's we you know, going outside of yourself, and then eventually you'll talk about the zero point, you know, thing. But yeah, is that accurate in terms of going? We're getting there.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

So, right. Well, so let me talk about that because so I was on the verge of this, I think multiple times, and I would get scared. So, one of the times I was studying A Course in Miracles, which I now am a huge fan of, but for a minute there, I was using the meditations and I started to actually feel like I was shifting into that other realm. Like I I perceived an angelic presence. I, you know, I started kind of like going into deep meditation and feeling like I was leaving my body. Like I was scared from that. That was, you know, that was and I quit, I put it the book away. So so I wasn't ready. So the next level, the 600 frequency is if you look at this, it actually parallels with the chakras. Okay. So I would kind of say what 500 was.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

What is 500?

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Well, I'll come back to 500. I wasn't ready for 600 because I hadn't done 500, if that makes sense. So the 600 is more the miraculous, the magical, the you know, the the mystics. Yeah, the 500 is much more stabilized, so it's more of a a it's consistent, and part of what makes the 500 work is this constancy. It's like the the waves and the storm can be going on all over, and there's a stillness within.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I want 500. That's where I want to get it.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

It's so good. I love 500. Yeah, I can just stay there. You can just stay there. Um, so I I actually got the opportunity to work with a former Buddhist monk, and he so here's where the zero comes in. So the monk mind is the 500. And and so the so when I started, it's Nithya Shanti is his name, and he's got some great stuff out there. He's uh he's entertaining, he's he's young for a monk, and I met him, you know, what was it 10, 12 years ago, and so he was in young, you know, he was like, You're a monk, that doesn't make sense. Anyway, so he was in his 30s, probably, and and he um he ended up in my little town of Cache Valley, and and I ran into actually a you know, a 12 steps.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

That's like it's like such a skin on a map type of thing. How did he get it?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

It is well, there was just a small little congregation, you know, and he ended up he he was supporting this congregation of this um Sangha, and he he had trouble with it, you know, it was kind of like supposed to just be a pass-through, but his visa wouldn't renew and he was stuck. Oh he had to get he had to work with his visa anyway. So he ended up being here for like three months. And and so my so I actually ran into my 12-step sponsor um who had gone to follow Tik Not Han. And so this is where kind of the spiritual journey, it was like I was moving into something even, you know, back when I'd been doing 12-step programs and and working with addiction recovery that I just kind of built on. And so, and she was ahead of me and had found this next piece of the journey. And and so she told me there's a monk in my basement, which will be a book title coming soon. And and she yeah, and I was like, oh wow, I need to know about this. And so I was, you know, as a Christian, and I just couldn't see myself like going to a congregation with Buddhism, and so I set it up as consultations. So I went in my first session with him, and here's what ties in with your podcast. He asked me, Tell me about your greatest fear. That's what he said. So my greatest fear, and I knew what it was, which was interesting. I said it's that I would cease to exist.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Yeah, I think I would have that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, it's different than death. I kind of knew, like I'd watched episodes of medium for you know, sever several times through, you know, I was like, I get that there's something on the other side, but the idea of nothingness what it was like a black hole. And I was always afraid of black holes as a child. So it was just something that was very intimidating. And but his answer to me was really interesting. Got definitely a 500 frequency answer. He said, if there is no you because you have ceased to exist, then what is there to be afraid of? There is no you to fear, yeah. To have fear, you know, it's like, oh wow, that's actually wow. And it was just like a freeing moment, you know, like just a little shift happened where I realized something he was he was walking me into something that I that was peaceful.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

That's how it felt. See, that doesn't help me though. I would be a be selfish, egotistical person, you know, you what you're you and even though I'm no I'm far from perfect, being not me anymore, even though you could become, and you'll get to it, zero point, become part of something more, you know, uh universal. Um, I think a lot of people have that. We're so you can't so us, I I some of the people I talk to are like uh pet psychics, right? And they talk about pets when they pass, they're not afraid. They're you know, they don't, you know, they love to be with their masters, but they kind of leap across to the other side. There's no fear, there's no clinging to materiality, right? Because they have this pain and they leap across. But humans, and my mother, you know, she for seven she had Alzheimer's and she was not being fed for the last seven weeks and really had you know, it was really frail and at her weakest. Every breath was a struggle, but she fought like hell for seven days and then finally she did pass, you know. So humans cling on to something that is probably we shouldn't, you know. And I think uh a lot of us are like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

We do clean, and that is definitely a Buddhist principle of yeah, we cling. And the the peace comes from releasing that. So, well, the zero point this so this is interesting. So I I met with him, we did some sessions together, I started meditating, and then he went back to India and I kind of went back to my old ways. So I, you know, was back in this, you know, working till midnight, and you know, and I was trying to put on a big integrative mental health conference, and it was stressful, and so my whole system was off. And and I ate something at midnight, which my body was like, oh, we're not gonna handle that. And I went into an allergic reaction. So this allergic reaction, and it actually happened before that, and so my body had kind of used I it was a coping of some sort. Um, but I would typically pass out along with all the other symptoms of amphylaxia, and so I I passed out, but usually it's like I would experience this and I'd passed out many times in my life. I'm at they call it fight, flight, freeze, and faint. I was a fainter. So so I'd done it many times, and I'd always go to the darkness, and then my consciousness would find me, and we'd come back. This time it didn't happen. So this time I remember my consciousness didn't find me.

unknown 37:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

So it was, yeah, and I was I was in a semi-coma for three hours.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

My goodness. Oh wow. Was your respiratory breathing fine?

SPEAKER_01 37:48

But you were just kind of I was alive, but I was gone.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Was someone with you or did someone find you?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Well, I was alone in a bathroom at home, and and I call I tell people it's like I wasn't hovering on the ceiling, I wasn't, you know, exploring. I I had not my spirit was not elsewhere, it was gone. And but when my body came back, it was almost like I wasn't with it either. And and I almost it's like part of me could be there enough to just at least make a guttural noise. And it was like 3 a.m. And my husband and my daughter found me and carried me to bed, and and for the next day, I more or less had to rem like bring back the ability to speak, to walk.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Kind of like a stroke, like a mini stroke almost, or uh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

It was, I don't know that there's a medical term for it. Yeah, I don't know what it was, other than I think it was a a zero. There was my zero point.

unknown 38:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

So so the what happens in the zero point, and I've studied this, and you know, and it was before I, you know, I met with the monk and I had this experience before I enrolled in quantum university, but I believe it was that same spring that like my consciousness said, now you're you know, you've you gotta find the rest of it because now you've seen the zero. And so in in quantum physics, the zero point field is like a vacuum where all the energy is gone, every all of everything's out. Okay, so there's a nothingness, right? And and what's interesting is that, well, so I had a Zen master a couple years later ask me, like, to explain, you know, the zero point field. Well, it was actually after I finished my studies with Quantum University, and and I said, Okay, he says, What's the difference between the zero point field and the unified field? And I actually had an answer I didn't know I had. And so I explained, well, the zero point field is like a vacuum, right? And so a vacuum still has it's a container, and so the unified field, there's no container, there's no separation of nothingness and everything else, it's just uh everything else.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

So which is higher on the frequency, zero point or the unified?

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Well, it depends on well, here's a couple things I'll share with you. So I believe there is an incredibly high frequency with um intention. So that's the answer. It's what is the intention? So intention moves through both, you know, this zero point field and this and especially the unified field. So if you want to study this more, um, I found Dr. Frank Kenslow speaks about quantum entraintain. Sorry, quantum entrainment. It is the ability, so entanglement is chaos or not. You don't know what it's gonna be because you haven't set the intention. Entrainment is intention-oriented, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

So he's done this work with this allness, this unified field, and has brought healing intention to it. And he's written a book called The Secret of Instant Healing. So very high frequency.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

And a very I'm sure this is a wrong analogy, but in trainment, I'm here with you. Both intentionally, we've decided to be here tonight and talk. Well, in Takelman is a world that effects has effects on us that we don't realize.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

I go out and I get some alcohol and I get in a car accident, you know, that it's not a well, let's keep going because you know, we talk about these parallels. Um, obviously, 600 frequency is a cleared version of third eye um type awareness influence, but that is not always what is going on with the third eye. The third eye can be very polarized. And so, so this is where, like the movie um Sixth Sense, right? Okay, so you got this little boy. I mean, he's this pure little vessel, but he's been, you know, I guess put into this world of dark and light. And and fear is part of his experience of darkness. And so and until he starts to see what's around him with either neutrality or love, like that the and it's the vibe, right? The vibration of of love is you know, and higher peace and that type of thing are the things that will shift perception, literally, to where we start to see what could be negative as part of a wholeness, which you know, you look at the yin yang, you know, the the Dao De Chang symbol, whatever the Tao symbol is is more or less it's both. We're here in a mix of dark and light, and it's part of a whole experience.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

So after 600, 700 is it is it still in hundreds? Do you go up before you get to what are what are the next ladders as you So I actually so before I discovered Dr.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Hawkins' scale, yeah, I was actually given a model that was seven levels. Okay. And so it was basically seven levels of progression. So I just kind of stick with a seven-level model because that's much as much as I can wrap my head around. And what's interesting, and I didn't even see this in the beginning, is it does parallel with the seven chakras. And so if you look at a seven hundred frequency tying in with the crowned chakra, the crown chakra is our union point with the divine, really. And so if we can channel that, pure light and love, that moves us into that 700 frequency.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

So, spiritually, how would you define yourself? And after you've gone through this kind of learning and and reawakening and re-evolving yourselves spiritually, where are you are you today? Before we get into some dark stuff in a minute, but spiritually, okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I'm very eclectic. So I've I've managed to keep this, I I call it my pie.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

You're integrated, so I've been integrated spiritually, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yes, I am very integrative. So I've got pieces of my pie that are just kind of traditional Christian that I grew up with, definitely non-denominational Christian, and love some of the like the K-Love kind of music and you know, and and the vibe from that. And and then I've got the Buddhism over here, and I've done some study of Kabbalah and Kundalini yoga, and um, you know, definitely, and I'm very interested in Judaism, you know. I dive into that sometimes. So yeah, just I mean, there's so much that I open up to, I guess, and and I feel like it's parts of me all being facets, you could say, I guess. I kind of see myself as more the diamond in the, you know, I have to be polished, definitely. A lot of ego work.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Ago was like they're all different dimensions of heaven, you know, and it's real basically, it's almost like the world, you know, where there's a part of the world that's Islam, there's a part of the world that's Buddhist, it's a part, you know, there's all these different layers of it. And it's really kind of you you are directed to where you your your life path has taken you. I'm giving a very bad overview of what that was, but I remember it was very much about heaven is not just meeting Jesus or Saint you know Saint Peter at the gates and then meeting Jesus and it's one realm. It's actually a lot of interconnected realms, was what he was talking about, which is kind of fascinating. Yeah. So you are in a very good spot today. Is it all is it safe to say that or what? Are you as you've kind of had this personal growth, you're in a very good spot spiritually?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

I'm still getting polished. I mean, yeah. I mean, I could focus on the facets that are polished and everything's working, and and I like to look at raising frequency in five life areas. And so yeah, so it's not like one like frequency that I live in. You know, I've got you know a fluctuating frequencies with different life areas. So, you know, you've got your physical health. I think it's pretty good for me, and and mental emotional is actually really good for me. Um, financial fluctuates a little. Um, you know, we've got the spiritual, which I actually have spent less time and energy on. Um, relationships is a tough one. Like that one's still complex.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Oh, you're married and you have you're still married, right? Accurate to say. Yeah. Okay. And so that's great. Third marriage. Yeah. So yeah. I don't think I'm surviving. I mean, I'm older than you. I've I've I don't think it's like for me. My dad had it like 60 years with my mom. It was perfect, you know, great and everything. So maybe I don't know if you believe in reincarnation, but maybe the next life, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 46:28

But uh yes, definitely archetypes is kind of at least what I can call it. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

So yes, now that you've taken this all this way up to feeling good about love and consciousness, I'm gonna bring it down about possession, you know, because you mentioned before we got on this that you throughout your life had had a couple um we talked about, and I think we've already had a bunch of paranormal connections, quite frankly, in this in this discussion. But you talked about that you had personally been possessed. And I was curious, is it okay to talk about that now as we near the end of this, or is that just kind of a negative place, not worth going? You tell me.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

It's no, it's interesting because um, so I'll share that the other thing I was so afraid of before, you know, way before the monk was mental illness. So as a substance abuse counselor, I worked in a facility that was next door to the psychiatric ward. Okay. And I was good with what was going on in the addiction world. And there was a, it was like a locked door, literally just between the two. And sometimes we would hear the howling and the sounds of the mentally ill and tortured, right? The mentally tortured. And that scared the shit out of me. And so I had not, at that point in time, had not entered into my own psychiatric, psychiatric journey. So within about two years of that, I had my first bipolar episode and psychiatric or psychotic break. So I didn't go to a hospital. Um, it was kind of managed by family, and I figured out it was a reaction to an antidepressant I was taking. So I was able to just quit the antidepressant and thought I was fine. And I was until I went into my my master's program and got a divorce the same year. And, you know, like it just got really complicated and my and I broke again. And so so what I started to realize is that I I had not developed something, or there was maybe a purpose in me exploring this side of mental illness personally. Um, I thought I was gonna get kicked out of my program because I actually missed finals when I was hospitalized once. And and so it was really like quite a journey for me to go in and talk to my professor and say, uh, I'm bipolar and I was in, you know, the hospital. And and she didn't kick me out. So I figured out that maybe I was still gonna be okay. But it through those psychotic episodes, I there were times and I would I was get I would get to this threshold where I would lose kind of like that incident incident with the drugs where I wasn't in c in charge of me anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

And who was in charge? Could you feel another presence talking to you, or did it was just something that you Yeah, I had there were entities.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I remember one night in the hospital, so I hadn't slept. So part of it was like the sleep-deprived psychosis, and I was lying in bed in a in a hospital bed, and and I had this kind of you know, lucid dream of these are like basketball teams. So it was like I was like I was on the light. Well, I had to choose a side, so that's what I figured out about my bipolar disorder. Is some of this was on a soul level I had to really choose a side. Like I, you know, I dabbled in both.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Right? Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

And did that happen a couple times or what?

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Or did it happen It's happened multiple times. Like I've had seven or eight at least.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

And did it happen when you were in your 30s, or what what when did it happen?

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Most of it was in my 30s, and then I had a couple incidents, um 2021, 20, yeah, 2020. And you know, that was just a weird time for a lot of people. But for me, it was like there was a medication that I was missing. And it's almost like I had to be put through that experience to get everything dialed in. And so when I found that and it took a couple shots, it was like, oh, this solves so many problems for me. And it was kind of more on the natural side, and so it was interesting that it worked and it was, it took that much to find it. And I thank God, you know, that was for me part of a spiritual journey, part of that physical. Oh, we didn't get to the fourth part of this of the diamond is spiritual, right? And so what I found is that when I tune into a spiritual solution or I allow some of these spiritual experiences to work through me and with me and surrender and you know, and clean up the mess, whatever that looks like, that that I will be given a gift in it. And some of it is spiritual gifts.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Wow. You know, ayahuasca might be a real trip for you because you have you've experienced I probably won't use it. Yeah, I was gonna say probably not. Like you've already done a lot of stuff. Um I've kind of done that. I'm glad we ended up on a spiritual. So what was it almost like with the possession thing, like sleep paralysis? That once you've been through it, you knew that you could get out of it. And and so the more episodes you had, it was very scary, but you knew you could get out of it, or were they all equally frightening?

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Um they varied for sure. They varied. And and I it must have strengthened me or you know, been part of my journey. And I I yeah, there's this movie called Crazy Wise is more or less about the journey of finding solutions for mental illness that are not medical. You know, they are spiritual. They're you know, it's like in other cultures when someone starts to have these experiences like I'm describing, they're placed on a spiritual path and they start working with the shaman of the tribe, and they like they know what that looks like and in the gifts that are part of that. And our culture just hasn't created that well at all, like if at all.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Except for you. You have a website and you have you're able to help. I'm trying. Yeah, let's let's get that. It's a good place to wrap it up. Let's talk about what you offer at your website and how people when when and if they should contact you and and what is on their website that they should look at and consider before reaching out.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yes. Well, so I I tried to make it kind of simple to start with, you know, there's a few different freebies. You know, you can look at 10waysbook.com for understanding brain chemistry a little bit. And that's, you know, just kind of a series of information that goes with the book, 10 Ways to Balance Your Brain Chemistry. There's also, you know, a little bit, it goes a little deeper in there. I, you know, it's like there's so much that um one of the things I offer in my paid programs is frequency school. And like people that really want to understand this, it's a great, you know, curriculum with um understanding like each of these levels more and and personal experience with how to move through it and where you're at and you know what's next.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Self-guided courses or are you with them?

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Yeah, they're self-guided. And then I do offer, you know, I have some practitioners I've trained in zero point meridian, and I I make that very affordable for people to to access that. And you know, it's similar to you know what you would maybe spend on mental health therapy, but definitely works, you know, in a really powerful way. And and so it's yeah, there's a variety of things that I just I say go explore Christine Hull.com. And the name, if you're listening, is there's no h in Christine. So it's C-R-I-S-T-I-N-E H-U-L-L dot com. So yeah, freebies and my story. Put my story on there.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, your story is amazing. Uh any books you want to point them to in particular? Would they be on your website? Would they be on Amazon?

SPEAKER_01 54:17

So, oh yeah, being at zero is the one that I talk about.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Is it right back there?

SPEAKER_01 54:23

Oh, yeah, because I say memoir anthology. Have you ever heard of a combination of those two? So I tell the story of meeting my current husband, who's um his story's in there as well, and he's had you know his own quantum awakening. Um, I also have Vinny Tolman's story in there, and he's had a radical near death experience. But I, you know, I talk about this the zero and and how it has become part of a practice, you know. So I developed quantum wholeness meditation, and I also have a community that we we meditate regularly and study, of course, in miracles, and and do our work to be free of the ego's, I guess, what, lower frequencies.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

So that's excellent. It's a great conversation. I I misled you. I didn't ask you any of the questions that were on the questions I sent you ahead of time. That's okay. We did and we went over 50 minutes, but anyways, we're at 53. But thank you so much for your time today, Dr. Christine Hall. It's a very, you know, illuminating uh conversation and so much more to untap. And I encourage everyone to go to your website. We'll certainly put that in the uh show notes. So thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Thank you.